Do i turbo it?

[VVC MINI]

Do i turbo my 1.6 metro.
Spec is
1.6 k series with vvc exhaust cam and a 52mm tb, 416 ecu.
Suspension upgrades = GTI shocks
Brakes standard

I have my complete turbo kit of my vvc engine. I would use a t25 ive required as im using my t28 on my tomcat.

Its all a straight bolt on apart from i need to move the rad forward 20mm and fit a slim line push fan and a charge cooler.

4psi lasted 800mile on my vvc engine but the 1.6 should be stronger, plus ill add a decompression plate. But is it worth doing it? The standard 1.6 engine is to much for the brakes and the suspension but i just want to blow my mate turbo puma in a metro kensington

What do you guys think?

[black_sunrise]

DO IT

[james3990]

Isnt this your daily drive though?

You seem to have enough fun with it as it is.

Sure impressed me when I went in it


Its just the idea of a rover 100 1.6 turbo that sounds very convincing!

[carl747]

Do it Bit be careful after all the VVC only lasted 800m

get con plate etc...

it's been done on a 1.4 by talon

EDIT in fact turn give them a call he would be hppy to help you

[matt077]

if you use it every day then no, i would vvc it

[southside]

What bhp will a turbo'd 1.6 give? In all honesty i'd just VVC it, Probably work out easier and less likely to blow up.

[j220 gti]

worth experimenting with if you really want to do it, its not like the 1.6 k series cant be picked up cheep enough if/when it does go pop. But if its your daily drive not the best idea .

[Stevo135+]

do it, but you need a mappable ECU that can retard the ignition and provide accurate fueling. Megasquirt or a secondhand aftermarket ECU would be ideal. I think you should strip the VVC engine and find out exactly what when wrong with it as well! 4psi on std internals should have been doable IMO!

[Limecat]

4 PSI is NOTHING. I assume thats based on a static CR and nothing done? (I don't claim to know the parameters of a K but that's NOTHING generally speaking!)

Why a decompression plate? There are other ways to drop the CR including cams, taking meat out of the chambers of the head etc. All have pro's and con's but I am not a believer in decompression plates.

It would be a cool car but if you are looking for reliability I wouldn't use a decomp plate. Likewise, I wouldn't use a charge cooler either.

[Stevo135+]

i don't think he needs either tbh! i think the std 10.5:1 CR would handle a T25 at 4psi ok, if the fuel and spark management could be accurately tweaked to suit! no fmu or rising rate regulators can do this properly.

As for the chargecooler, well it is a good option, as unless you go for a top mount I/C there is no room to fit one in a metro, without having it stick out past the bumper which is just gash tbh!

[Limecat]

i don't think he needs either tbh! i think the std 10.5:1 CR would handle a T25 at 4psi ok, if the fuel and spark management could be accurately tweaked to suit! no fmu or rising rate regulators can do this properly.

As for the chargecooler, well it is a good option, as unless you go for a top mount I/C there is no room to fit one in a metro, without having it stick out past the bumper which is just gash tbh!

I was working on the assumption he wanted more than 4PSI this time? Granted it was an assumption.

[munky]

Dont do it.

If the cars chassis etc cant take it and it will compromise handling a lot, why bother? just so you can win a traffic light gp?



Just challenge him to a grown-ups race. On b-roads.

[Limecat]

Dont do it.

If the cars chassis etc cant take it and it will compromise handling a lot, why bother? just so you can win a traffic light gp?



Just challenge him to a grown-ups race. On b-roads.

Is that an E30 in your sig? We aren't talking about Scalextric here Munky!

[mg-richard]

why would it be stronger, the 1.6 uses the same pistons as the 143 vvc

the engine is cheap to replace so i say do it

[munky]

Dont do it.

If the cars chassis etc cant take it and it will compromise handling a lot, why bother? just so you can win a traffic light gp?



Just challenge him to a grown-ups race. On b-roads.

Is that an E30 in your sig? We aren't talking about Scalextric here Munky!

eh?

[shen]

I'd go with a T02 though if you're not going for alot of boost tbh

[Stevo135+]

Yeah a T2 sized blower would be the ideal i reckon, but the std 220 T25 would still work on a 1600. Lots of compression and little boost is the way forward with turbocharging a fairly fragile nasp engine. The K-series can't take alot of boost.

Look at all the parts that BBR have to manufactuer or change to ultra expensive bespoke parts at a cost of about £10k to offer a warrenty on their 14.7psi engine conversion to the 1.8K, and even then their own thicker liner's used, reduce the engine capacity to just over 1700cc, so your paying to have your engine made smaller!

There is a reason why VVC Mini's first K-turbo engine went pop, and until it is stripped and checked we wont know why. I bet that it could have been prevented though with more control of fueling and ignition and cooling.

[VVC MINI]

Ive got a complete wiring loom for mems 3 in a metro including a 160 ecu 5as etc. Plus ive got my head of my turbo vvc which is 160 and all the coilpacks and every think to VVC my metro. But i think the turbo would be more powerful.

I would take a guess of 160hp and 160ftlb on the standard ecu. But the question is how long would it last? The compression is lower than my coupes VVC and less power so should be less stress on the engine.

But will the 1.6 pistons take the boost? With a decompression plate it should be ok i think. I know the ignition timming is out but its out in the way that gives you more power

[edward22]

get a vtec lump in there . and turbo that lol . if your worryed about gearing etc then you can make ur own custom geared box pretty much as theres loads of compatible gearing from other honda/rover boxes

[Roger Red Hat]

all that just for 160?

save the time put a 1.8 in there, sell the 1.6.

how come only 800 miles on the other one?

[Stevo135+]

He's already got a 1.6k and could get another 2-3 for £100-150 most probably. A low boost set up retaining the std compression would be interesting and a cheap way to make another 30-40bhp and at least the same in torque! A 150bhp turbo 1.6 will out perform a 160bhp VVC 1.8 in the real world, and anyway the bits are already there, it's not massive work either, and however you tune a Metro to 150-160bhp, it's going to bloody fly! I just think that a nice little turbo set up on a cheap and disposable base engine is a good idea, and one that if it does fail, or you decide to destruction test/tune it, then throwing another useable secondhand K-series under the bonnet (after fitting a new head gasket of course) would be easy and quick to do.

Remember that Evolution has at some stage used a 1.6K in his Mini, and that has made loads of power on a std bottom end, albeit with mappable management, which is what you need in one form or another.

[bgunn]

The 1.6K isn't stronger, it'll end in tears. Don't do it unless you're prepared to spend money building a proper engine.

[shen]

The 1.6K isn't stronger, it'll end in tears. Don't do it unless you're prepared to spend money building a proper engine.

echo this...

turbo technics spent a good while getting the K series turbocharged.
You should look at their setups though they no longer support them.

Originally it was a £5k job and they ended up with piston changes to get up to 200bhp....I have read that later on that didn't happen and it was just stronger HG used

[vinny19791]

vvc ftw

tried and tested in a metro gti

[bgunn]

+1

It just works, and gives the drivability the car needs - nice low down grunt (for a Metro) and a good high rev power too.

[vinny19791]

uprate the brakes though!!

even if its just better discs/pads

years back i put a set of ebc discs on.

no fade. stopped the moments when the discs were too hot after braking hard,

Mind metro brakes are no bigger than cd's

[bgunn]

Even worse is the fact they're used on the MGF...

[Roger Red Hat]

i thought my metro brakes where pretty good for what they where..

[Limecat]

vvc ftw

tried and tested in a metro gti

True but half of modifying a car is about being different and tailoring it to your needs.

If you want to be the same as everyone else in the Metro World, myself included, then buy a VVC (at least buy the 160 and don't buy the pikey 143).

If you want to do something different, push the envelope and have a project that people take interest in because it is different then smack a blower on it! Pull the pin, see how long it lasts? Yeee-haaaa!

[mg-richard]

vvc ftw

tried and tested in a metro gti

True but half of modifying a car is about being different and tailoring it to your needs.

If you want to be the same as everyone else in the Metro World, myself included, then buy a VVC (at least buy the 160 and don't buy the pikey 143).

no it isnt!!

its about you and your own car, the fun you have building, finding the technical knowledge, solving problems, finding the money

who cares what joe bloggs at the other end of the country has in his garage

let other people worry about being different

you really chat sh1t

[munky]

No he doesnt!

Its all about being indervidjewel...



innit... bruv.

[Limecat]

vvc ftw

tried and tested in a metro gti

True but half of modifying a car is about being different and tailoring it to your needs.

If you want to be the same as everyone else in the Metro World, myself included, then buy a VVC (at least buy the 160 and don't buy the pikey 143).

no it isnt!!

its about you and your own car, the fun you have building, finding the technical knowledge, solving problems, finding the money

who cares what joe bloggs at the other end of the country has in his garage

let other people worry about being different

you really chat sh1t

That sums up why modifying is different for everyone then doesn't it?

As I said, 'tailoring it to your needs'

What is chatting sh1t in that statement?

You and I know I couldn't give a toss what people think of myself or my car. I can afford to throw money at it so why does it matter? I have had people on other forums slate me over the money I have thrown at cars and I can still do that. IMO it says more about them than it does about me. If someone has a problem with what I spend on MY car then it highlights their own problems in life IMO.

I chucked about £20k at a Corsa, why? Because I could.

I have about the same in receipts for the R5, why? Again, because I can.

I am upto about £6k at a guess on the Metro. I will let you guess why that is!

[Stevo135+]

The real point is that we all want to see what a 1.6 k-series with the weaker non VVC160 pistons can make with a turbo fitted. VVC Mini has all the important parts ready to fit, like a manifold, turbo, intercooler and piping, so in that sense making the most of what is already there it would be rude not to turbo it! I respect what Brian says about the non VVC160 K-series having even weaker cast pistons that he thinks will not survive 4psi, but we don't know this for certain, and unless we get some pics of what goes wrong and when then it's still myth status IMO.

Remember that Evolution got massive power out of an early style wet linered 1.4K with std pistons, no shims or de-compression plates, just a few cc's ground out of each combustion chamber in the head that only reduced the compression by a small amount too.

Management is the key IMO, and no one is expecting a bolt on turbo K-series to be an unburstable 200bhp+ gem like Drew's 1.4 turbo is, but i can't see throwing on a cheap secondhand blower onto an easily sourced and replaced cheap K-series being a big problem. Hell we could even chip in and buy the back up engine for him if/when it goes pop, which is not a certainty anyway with modest boost and good mapping i would say.

Limecat, have you got any pics of your old £20k Corsa or the Metro that you've already spent £6k on? I'm sure it's possible to spend that kind of cash on a car, but id love to see what £6k has got you for a Metro, i mean most people would reckon on building a pretty special Metro for say 1/2 that at the most, but hey. I'm not planning on my coupe costing me more than £6k at the very most, and that is for everything, engine, mechanicals, brakes, suspension, wheels, bodywork, interior and Ice. I think this is all possible within that budget, but i know things all cost more than you originally allow for. Id just be interested to know if you had planned to spend £6k on a Metro or if it's just crept up on you. And yes your right in that most people would think of it as madness!

[Limecat]

Stevo135, I have pictures but a lot of the parts are sat in the garage at my mothers house until next month when it all goes in. It basically looks like a standard Metro on cut slicks. The figure does include the cost of buying the car though TBH.

All the daft little bits add up; £160 on polybushes, same again on a flywheel (may have been more I forget without looking at receipts!) £210 on silicone hoses, £200 on a manifold, £320 on tyres. That's a grand already and we haven't even got onto an engine yet!

[bgunn]

The real point is that we all want to see what a 1.6 k-series with the weaker non VVC160 pistons can make with a turbo fitted. VVC Mini has all the important parts ready to fit, like a manifold, turbo, intercooler and piping, so in that sense making the most of what is already there it would be rude not to turbo it! I respect what Brian says about the non VVC160 K-series having even weaker cast pistons that he thinks will not survive 4psi, but we don't know this for certain, and unless we get some pics of what goes wrong and when then it's still myth status IMO.

No offence, but I don't. Yet another fried engine that goes through a head gasket, or melts the top ring lands, or runs a big end bearing (remember the 1.6 has smaller big ends, with weaker bearing material) isn't really 'progress' or 'research', it's just a melted engine. We all know that there is a weak link and that's going to be the pistons, so why prove the obvious by expending time fitting said installation to the car? It seems rather pointless to me.

Remember that Evolution got massive power out of an early style wet linered 1.4K with std pistons, no shims or de-compression plates, just a few cc's ground out of each combustion chamber in the head that only reduced the compression by a small amount too.

Different engine, different set of circumstances - the open deck K series is quite a different beast, coupled with weaker, less well located liners, weak pistons and unsuitable big end bearing material. It's a recipe for disaster really.

Management is the key IMO, and no one is expecting a bolt on turbo K-series to be an unburstable 200bhp+ gem like Drew's 1.4 turbo is, but i can't see throwing on a cheap secondhand blower onto an easily sourced and replaced cheap K-series being a big problem. Hell we could even chip in and buy the back up engine for him if/when it goes pop, which is not a certainty anyway with modest boost and good mapping i would say.

Speak for yourself, I won't be chipping into any melted engine purchases - Management is *one* of the keys, but a bottom end that can sustain the BMEP exerted on it by forced induction is another *key* point.