Doom and Gloom for MG Rover.....?

[200SEI]

A friend of mine at work told me today that MG Rover are going to announce 3000 job cuts at longbridge very soon.....(not sure exactly when).

I think its very sad that such a great brand is falling to its knees after a long and deep history, both in car manufacture and motorsport.

There is still hope yet tho, i think Rover are striking a deal with the chinese which may involve the build of the K Series engine over there. The MG-Chinese deal is said to be almost concrete.

As for the K series build location, who knows, it would make great financial sense to build it in a country where labour costs are a fraction of our own. Hence...China.

[Gary]

Sounds like the gossip that was in the papers. I carnt see them laying off half the staff they employ. 1k-1.5k would seem much more plausable.

Maybe a phased 10year or so layoff of 3,000 people but wouldnt make good business sense to get rid all at once.

[rover400turbo]

Rover were finished back when BAe sold them

Although it would seem BAESYSTEMS are looking at a less than rosey future.

[Martin]

At the risk of sounding harsh and getting flamed, I don't think Rover are a good brand. 10 years ago, maybe, but now - forget it.

Rover Motorsport, Rover cars, Rover dealers, Rover parts.

Motorsport - Gone now I believe? Only private funded teams have Rover gear now.

Cars - Nothing new, for the price you pay you get inferior quality cars. Whilst waiting to be served at the Rover Parts desk, I always look round the show room cars. Overspray and tripe n onions poor panel gaps, what the fck is that about?

Dealers - A lot of them are Cowboys. I doubt Rover would withdraw a dealers franchise even if it received hundreds of complaints. Local motor group round here got told to sod off by Toyota, for their poor service. Yet the Rover franchise has not had anything even similar to this.

Parts - I don't know who is to blame, but sourcing new parts can be a proper nightmare. Small things you have to buy in issues of 5 or 10, large things may never turn up. Or turn up duff.

Great.

Martin

[mach1rob]

And we all know who is to blame for that! bmw!! (not worthy of capitals!) It was obvious the only reason they wanted Rover was to get the Mini

I suppose they've got their comeupence tho, the entire bmw range is hideous, my 3 year old can draw a better looking car!

[Gary]

As i pointed out on the MGR forums BMW cannot be soley to blame. I wont go into detail why as it took me ages to write it over there lol. Rover management team are also to blame for the problems faced (granted BMW have stuck their ore in where it wasn't wanted but its highly unlikely.

Mismanagement at Rover has been apparent for as long as i can remember (and i am sure much longer), nothing appears to have changed. I would like to know if any of the managements teams throughout the years have ever studied Business Studies / Accounting / Economics (Micro and Macro) as TBH they STILL dont appear to be doing that good of a job.

BUT i do hope to be proved wrong about the current team, or alass we WILL be saying goodbye. The government look unlikely to bail them out (and what would be the point if they retain some of the plonkers they have there).

[200SEI]

I think BMW were actually more interested in the Range Rover drivetrain / technology than the mini. Although they did sh1t on rover a bit with the mini.....

BMW aren't really to blame i don't think as Rover was losing money when owned by them, thats why they got rid...

They have to come out with a new model soon, the 25 and 45 are outdated and the cityrover is just plain crap.

Another tomcat type car would be ideal......

[Stu]

At the risk of sounding harsh and getting flamed, I don't think Rover are a good brand. 10 years ago, maybe, but now - forget it.

Rover Motorsport, Rover cars, Rover dealers, Rover parts.

Motorsport - Gone now I believe? Only private funded teams have Rover gear now.

Cars - Nothing new, for the price you pay you get inferior quality cars. Whilst waiting to be served at the Rover Parts desk, I always look round the show room cars. Overspray and tripe n onions poor panel gaps, what the fck is that about?

Dealers - A lot of them are Cowboys. I doubt Rover would withdraw a dealers franchise even if it received hundreds of complaints. Local motor group round here got told to sod off by Toyota, for their poor service. Yet the Rover franchise has not had anything even similar to this.

Parts - I don't know who is to blame, but sourcing new parts can be a proper nightmare. Small things you have to buy in issues of 5 or 10, large things may never turn up. Or turn up duff.

Great.

Martin

There are lots of motorsports going on directly through MGR or with some backing.

British Touring Cars
German DTM
British Rallying

To name buit a few.

As for dealer and parts. Sounds like you just have a logger dealer. Don't have any problems getting parts from mine.

As for build quality. Well comparing the interior of our MY04 ZS to a mates 54 Mazda 6, the quality is far better in the ZS.

As for the original post. MGR did not deny there would not be job losses at Longbridge. The story he is reguratating without comprehending also implied they were talking about job losses from supporting business as well as MGR.

[Hyper]

When Rover quality control failed to correct the problems with the K series cylinder heads, it stopped many repeat Rover customers from believing in the brand. The MGF did the same for the MG.
The relative success enjoyed by Rover/MG in the last few years was totally unexpected by bmw, when they sold it they expected it to, go belly up within months. They even tried to sabotage Unipart on their way out of the door, which put parts prices up for all Rover models and limited the spares available for older cars.

R

[200SEI]

The original story is referring to what i was told by a lad i work with, his dad works at longbridge....

With regards to the quality, i can't speak for that as i don't own a new Rover.

What i do know is that the K Series has seriously damaged Rovers rep and actually costs Jaguar/Land Rover over a million a year in warranty costs....

The british motor industry is not doing too well at all.......maybe i should leave

[george_chick]

Rover has been a standing joke for years, and that's BMW's fault is it?

IIRC BMW went into the red for the first time in yonks whilst it owned Rover, it also cost them something like 400 million to get rid of Rover.

Limited parts for older cars, not surprised they took and axe to chunks of the parts operation, all those parts in stock is money, its money thats sitting about and not earning.
Every minute a part sits in stock unsold it's losing money, leave it in stock long enough and there's no profit in selling the part at all.

Rover's problem is the same as it's always been Rover management/culture.

[200SEI]

Sadly, George is correct, if the management could straighten itself up then i would expect an increase in profit for Rover.....

Will this ever happen...? Who knows, it dosen't look like the government is going to step in anyway. I think Rover needs a collaboration to help itself out. A collaboration with Honda would prob help them no end. Trouble is, no one in the business thats not completely mad will touch them while they're in this state.

Im sorry but i don't believe bmw are at fault. Other companies suffer at the same time.

Jaguar is in the same position, its losing money hand over fist. Land Rover too, although i can promise some very exciting new stuff from the both of them as i work with some of it day to day..

[mach1rob]

Ok look at it this way, things were ticking over with a nice joint venture with Honda, BAe sells up tom bmw, Honda wave 2 fingers and slam the door on the way out. Now what would the Rover and possibly MG range look like now if BAe had sold to Honda instead of bmw??

[200SEI]

Its business i guess, maybe honda weren't interested, maybe bmw just came up with more MONEY. Which at the end of it is what its all about to most people.

[Hyper]

The Rover-Honda partnership was not a standing joke and it went some way to repairing the damage done by past management.
I believe bmw bought Rover with the intention of closing it down in the first place.
Everyone who worked at Rover was totally gutted when bmw came in,
they liked the Honda management style and training they received.
How convenient that bmw never made a loss before acquiring Rover !
Rover is currently being killed by the management pension fund and bonuses.
My main point about Unipart was that bmw did it on their way out of the door to shake things up and make it more difficult for people with older cars to get new parts.
R

[Hyper]

I didn't think Honda were even asked until late - Honda felt like BAe/Rover had spat on their shoes, bearing in mind the improvements Rover had made in conjunction with Honda.
R

[Hyper]

Ok look at it this way, things were ticking over with a nice joint venture with Honda, BAe sells up tom bmw, Honda wave 2 fingers and slam the door on the way out. Now what would the Rover and possibly MG range look like now if BAe had sold to Honda instead of bmw??

Not much different to the way they do now, excepting the 75 and above sports cars, but the engineering/design might have been modernised due to the training ethic of Honda.
Many Japanese people feel an affinity with the British, a sort of admiration based on past history, economics, music, culture,engineering and the fact that we're both island races.
Honda quite rightly felt BAe and Rover acted dishonourably towards them
and in the future will have no dealings with Rover.
R

[iainp]

http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/wschapter8f.htm

Very interesting read

Iain

[Hyper]

Interesting but not totally accurate.
R

[Gary]

Ok look at it this way, things were ticking over with a nice joint venture with Honda, BAe sells up tom bmw, Honda wave 2 fingers and slam the door on the way out. Now what would the Rover and possibly MG range look like now if BAe had sold to Honda instead of bmw??

Not much different to the way they do now, excepting the 75 and above sports cars, but the engineering/design might have been modernised due to the training ethic of Honda.
Many Japanese people feel an affinity with the British, a sort of admiration based on past history, economics, music, culture,engineering and the fact that we're both island races.
Honda quite rightly felt BAe and Rover acted dishonourably towards them
and in the future will have no dealings with Rover.
R

Honda wont have anything to do with Rover because they no longer need Rover to suceed within Europe and espically the UK. The joint venture of Honda / Rover was advantages to both parties.

Also wasn't the contract up with unipart anyway when Rover/BMW switched to catepillar?

[bgunn]

Interesting but not totally accurate.
R

Says who?

Brian.

[Stu]

They even tried to sabotage Unipart on their way out of the door, which put parts prices up for all Rover models and limited the spares available for older cars.

R

Talk about innacurate.

The Catepillar Logistics deal was going through well before BMW decided to offload MGR. It had nothing to do with trying to sabotage anything.

It;s all of the meladramatics that have put them where they are. All the doom and gloom reporting and people making statements like that are partly why the public has lost confidence in the company.

[Hyper]

They even tried to sabotage Unipart on their way out of the door, which put parts prices up for all Rover models and limited the spares available for older cars.

R

Talk about innacurate.

The Catepillar Logistics deal was going through well before BMW decided to offload MGR. It had nothing to do with trying to sabotage anything.

It;s all of the meladramatics that have put them where they are. All the doom and gloom reporting and people making statements like that are partly why the public has lost confidence in the company.

Innacurate ? So Rover parts haven't gone up much in price in the last couple of years ? Is there still as good a parts availability for older models ?
Do you work for a Rover dealership ?

When Honda came to Rover's rescue they took most all levels of management to Japan as part of ongoing training.
When BMW took over they gave stupid payrises to upper level management and squandered money which the website alludes to.
Honda wanted to improve the image of Rover and make use of it as a western European manufacturing base.
I believe BMW were always going to offload Rover, they had their eye on the marque names they wanted to keep from day one. The brands they were interested in keeping they paid attention to. A large part of the money they 'lost' probably included development costs of the new Mini.
As stated on the website I was referred to earlier, it states that effective negotiations between BAe and bmw were opened before Honda were even approached , hardly a good business ethic. When Honda, Rover's supposed business partner were offered a late chance to outbid bmw , its amazing they even bothered to reply.
Even the guy who brokered the deal with bmw realised the gaff he'd made and went to Japan to try and apologise.
As for your comments about me being one of the people who tarnish Rover's reputation, then you're sadly mistaken there as well.
I've personally bought six new Rovers and been responsible for promoting
and leasing in the region of three hundred others which was my choice.
I used to deal with Rover in a corporate capacity but the difference between myself and Rover executives was that if I got it as wrong as they did, I would have been sacked.
It's an interesting website toeing a corporate friendly policy, similar in outlook to parts of the mg-rover.org site where even the CityRover is promoted as a great car by the website owner.
Rover have made some great cars despite most of the people who ran it, not because of them.
R

[Tritium]

Maybe now I risk to get flamed, but....
In my opinion I don´t think that BMW wanted to kill Rover when they bought it. It would have been a good addition to the range of cars BMW produces. They only server the higher-priced region of cars (even a relative small 3xx can cost a fortune). And building a "cheap" car with the brandname of BWM would have ruined their reputation as a "expensive" brand.
So Rover would have given a nice change to build lower-priced cars and so earn some money in this region too.

[george_chick]

I'm inclined to agree with you.
Same reason Ford bought Jaguar, if you can't create viable a premium brand (how many MD's would buy a Granada?), buy one.

Buy Rover, widen your market coverage and keep your premium brand image intact.
That said, a bottom of the range 3 series is about as interesting as wall paper paste.

[asteconn]

One thing that we've forgotten in allof this is the release of the Mk3 200 into the wrong class (it was designed to replace the metro). I think Rover seriously shot themselves in the foot when they released the mk3 200 to replace a car it wasn't designed to replace.

It's a pity Rover and Honda are probably never going to speak to each other again. IMHO the last decent car that Rover produced was the mk2 200 (a joint venture). and being fair it's a cracking car apart from the rather dull two tone on the earlier models. touch wood nothing serious with either of the ones I do or have owned.

I think they'd have more luck now if they put the mk2 200 back into production :-P - especially the coupe.

[MGTurbo]

They even tried to sabotage Unipart on their way out of the door, which put parts prices up for all Rover models and limited the spares available for older cars.

And this statement is very worrying, because my own cars, all being over ten years old, used to enjoy a good parts supply/backup before things went over to Caterpilliar.

We now have things unavailable such as head gaskets of all things (although this is partially the pathetic dealers) Where will i and many others be in a few years time? On our own is where we will be, which is why i am putting so much effort into getting vital parts sourced and reproduced.

It's a sad state of affairs this MGRover malarky and i do blame BMW for the state of the company in 2005. I mean come on, the Mk2 Rover 400 and Mk3 Rover 200 was launched in 1995! The basis of these cars date from the late 80's/early 90's and as capable as they are, they are too bloody old to compete and no amount of new bumpers or endless equipment upgrades is going to change this. If MGR dont bring out a new family sized car out this year, they are well and truly f ucked.

[GeraintUk]

They even tried to sabotage Unipart on their way out of the door, which put parts prices up for all Rover models and limited the spares available for older cars.

We now have things If MGR dont bring out a new family sized car out this year, they are well and truly f ucked.

they have the cityrover (goes off to get coat) lol

[mach1rob]

As posted on MG-R this morning, is this the shape of things to come?

[george_chick]

Don't hold your breath or anything else waiting for that to appear.

Why Rover can't just tell lies I don't know, 'all new floorpan' actually its the old floor pan stretched slightly.

This 'all new/200 detail changes stuff' only matters to Journos, real punters wouldn't know the difference, they just want to see it in articles.

Edit @14.55

As of this afternoon Rover have lost another customer, probably forever.
Boss just came back from a meeting with her MGF/TF, overheating and hissing, asked me to have a looksee.
Lovely smell of oil and water mixing in the now empty (apart from red trifle) expansion tank, usual trifle mix on dipstick too.

So now she has 2 broken K series cars, shes got a 214 at home that's been broken for over a year, she hasn't bothered to get it fixed.
She's just taken about 10 calls from various customers/contacts and told them all '2 years blown head gasket, serviced in sept, yadda, yadda, yadda'
Believe me the world and his wife will hear about it all next week too.

Rover, self, foot, shot.
Rover and the word Dog in the same sentence, surely not?