Rovertech 2.0

Trevor McDonald program on Monday night 13-06-05 11pm ITV
Might be a different time in different ITV regions.
I think the finger will be pointed at John Towers and the rest of the Phoenix 4.
There was an article in The Guardian on Saturday saying there'll be no money for any creditors. Debts are 1.4 billion and assets are less than 85 million.

DTI are investigating them

Theyve bleed the company dry, the workers have nothing while they walk away with millions..

i think that the money they have Belongs to the workers..

it's also concluded on friday.

Dan

Can't quite blame the Phoenix four on their own for the death of Rover it was on the cards for a long time.
Depending on how you look at it they asset stripped or split off the profitable bits and ring fenced the bit that was losing money so the profitable bits could carry on independently.

I did hear that Landrover have run out of the 19,000 lumps they ordered before Rover went belly up and are now having problems getting lumps, so Powertrain might not have been all that healthy either.
The other way of looking at it is all the selling of assets kept the whole thing trundling along until they could find a someone willing to buy it up, problem is nobody wanted it.
I'd be interested to know what happened to the £400 million BMW gave them to take the sick puppy off their hands though.

I hope Rover's p poor productivity is mentioned too, can't just blame the men at the top.
That said their wages and pension setup was quite frankly taking the pee.
They mentioned that they put their houses up to raise the money, but BMW paid hansomely to get rid of Rover, so there was no way they could lose on the deal, no doubt the govenment had a hand in steering the deal too.

I carnt see this listed on radio times website, is it deffo on at 11pm?

Part1 here: http://www.newpcworld.com/cars/rover/mo ... _part1.avi

Anyone want to record the one on Friday?

I've got it set to record on sky+, both parts.

Deffo think that the motor racing was a hideous waste of cash. Standard business practice is to channel everything back in to the business until you are in good profit territory, and then go racing.

My favourite bit of the first part was when matey said about the chinese basically got the Rover bosses pi**ed as farts while pretending to drink themselves and then when the Rover boys were mullah'd, started the negotiations hehe.

It obviously worked because that's when they sold the rights to the chinese to make the models BEFORE they struck the final deal. As matey said, that was like putting the condom on after sex

Yeah, it was a good analogy. What "feckin eejits" they were getting pissed before having crucial negotiations.

Can you transfer what you've recorded on Sky+ into computer video file format of any kind so you can upload the 2nd part?

Erm, havn't really tried to output from sky+ to digital media yet, never really needed to, so not sure how just yet, although i have recorded out to good ol' fashioned VCR and have taken analogue audio out to minidisc. Anyway, the second part is on ITV1 on Friday 17th at 8pm for anyone reading this thread.

IrishRover, how did you record the first part on .avi?

I have a USB Hauppuage tv tuner thing and I used Virtualdub to capture the video using it as the capture device. I used mjpeg codec to capture it in realtime and then recompressed it with MS WMV9 video codec and compressed the sound with mp3 codec.

I only have a crock of a <1GHz computer now though so that's why the sound isn't synchronised perfectly.

Just not sure if I'll be able to record it again on Friday.

(sorry for the nerd-talk by the way )

Did anyone get a copy of Fridays one? I missed it

Why - who's to balme ? ...Did not watch either programme.... I'd bet money same old media negative slant on anything British Industry related.

Their platform points the finger at the demise of the remnant MG-Rover ONLY following assett stripping BMW's involvement.

To those who did watch the programmes, was any mention made of the contribution to the 'why bust' blame made by Wilson, Clarkson and just about anyone else in the UK's media pre-during-post BMW involvement?

Fact is, with that in mind since the year dot, coupled with all the foreign product boot licking by 'our' media since that same year dot, coupled with insufficient funds and no genuine long term partners since 2000, the project was near impossible to succeed.... Remember too, many wanted to see them fail. Sadly, in that Mega-total are many so called Brits.

Yes, a Nation Hell Bent on getting it wrong. That's the essence of the 'Blame'.

A Nation 'hell bent' on getting things wrong? Surely that can't be right? Go on then nation, prove me wrong - no one will be more delighted than I if you do.

Still, why should I worry? I'm alright Jack.... for now.

I didn't get to see part 2. Did anyone record this?

John, have a look at part1 here: http://www.newpcworld.com/cars/rover/mo ... _part1.avi

they could of summed it all up in 1 min in my opinion

they bought company in dire straits with a billion in the bank, failed to get money off sponsors desperate to give it to them.
Went racing without a racecar, and spent silly amounts on hospitality when they had no new products due out.

icing on the cake.

2 weeks before they went bust they signed off 5 million for hospitality at this years Le Mans.
Shame they had no car to race even if they were still around.

GeraintUk wrote:
2 weeks before they went bust they signed off 5 million for hospitality at this years Le Mans.

Shame they had no car to race even if they were still around.

How come a non-existent car won its class then ... true to form, nowt in that "Good Ol' UK Media" about that ....Their attitude is and always has been....It's Britsh dummy....not interested! ..... How come? ...Not enough negativity for our 'ever so clever' media I suppose....


In this connection, 'av a "Butcher's" at this over on the MG BBS:

http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5? ... 2410219926

Note particularly the query from the French correspondent: Antoine....

Witness also the Mega-Negative blanket media coverage of the non-Event US Grand Prix.... They're having a real feast out of it .... Cluelesss...had Jenson Button secured his first GP victory there (Jensen's a Brit BTW), the coverage would be scant in comparison. Negativity ... according to them, that's what us Brits need in abundance apparently ... Clueless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Manufacturer participation in Motor sport is simply another form of advertsing. That figure is relatively peanuts for motor sport participation and would appear as 'peanuts' within the advertsing budget in most other organisations.... If all the so called P4 wasted funds were concentrated solely on the much needed 'new' 45 replacement, it still would not have materialised.... they did not have sufficient funds for such a large budget project.

IrishRover wrote:I didn't get to see part 2. Did anyone record this?

John, have a look at part1 here: http://www.newpcworld.com/cars/rover/movies/trevormcdonald_rover_part1.avi

Thanks for the offer Irish M8...On principle, I will not take you up on your offer to view more UK media 'Arn't we ever so clever' after the event wisdom.

Never let your principles prevent you from doing the right thing John!

Better to have a look at any information available to you and then make up your mind about it. Anyway, I don't think it's that biased really. I'm sure there are several combining reasons why MGRover eventually went the way it did but they examine one particular reason of evidently gross mismanagement on the part of the Phoenix 4/5 and the supreme folly of getting drunk before negotiations and giving away the only card in the deck they had to play with.
Also, there is an interview with a sponsor who was exasperated and bewildered that he could not give his money away and was by his account treated with great disrespect by Rover management.

but John,,,

MG Rover didn't exist so it was not a MG car at Le Mans, it wasn't owned by MG.
Even if they had even had a car, can you really support the management signing off 5 million 2 weeks before they went bump, with them knowing that it could happen.
5 mill would of helped out even a little bit for the 6000 who lost there jobs.

I'm sorry, but media aside, they really did not manage the company well and they could of developed new models with other manufacturers but did not invest when they could of.
The deal with SAIC was for sale in reality, not a development agreement like they used to have with Honda.

Now I hope this part is wrong. I read on BBC Teletext last night (and bbc are usually pretty accurate) that there were unconfirmed reports that during the sale of rights to the 25, 45, 75 to SAIC, they also got the MG-F !!!!!!
PriceWaterhouseCoopers were supposed to confirm today wether this was the case or not.
That would be a big blow to a sale of the MG arm imo.

I'm suprised the 225 mph MG wasnt hasnt been mentioned yet

looking back should have had that Alcamey (or WTFC) deal all right 5000 jobs over a period of time got rid of old wood @ Longbridge... might still have been here today.

I hope the phoenix four hold there head in shame
no wonder trade and industry spokeswomen had to speak on there behalf

phoenix four you deffently are a bunch of xylophones

It's a crying shame and as a British bloke who's proud of his country's (good) achievements, even more of a blow given the once prolific and inventive manufacturing industry this country had.

Over the past 50 years this has been p!ssed away by all sorts...not just the media. Thinking purely of BMC/BL/Rover/MG-R I can name off the top of my head the following examples of generic stupidity and greed:
cowardly managers who were afraid of challenge.
lazy workers who couldn't be ar$ed (especially if they thought they could bully the Mgmt into giving them another paid tea-break...
commie (well what else were they?) unions who were on ego trips.
designers/engineers who felt quality came second to ideas (BMC1100; SD1, K-Series engine)
product planners who thought they knew best (Maxi, Marina, Princess, Maestro, TR7)
domestic purchasers who uncomplainingly accepted crap for too long (ie pre 1980) and then finally ignored good product from home producers (ie post 1990).
the greedy image-driven society we live in now, where (amongst other things) a product is less defined by it's merits than the label or badge it wears.
inept marketing (compare popular Rover image of 1985 with 2005...).

I think it's unfair to throw too much blame at the media as they wrote unashamedly glowing reviews of frankly ordinary products for many years. I can remember reading the reviews for many of the early 1980's BL products and even as a youngster who thought a Rover V8 was the only car worth owning this side of a Countach or Sport Quattro, I could sense they were being given an easy ride. However, saying that, they haven't exactly helped in the past decade...

Nevertheless (and despite not seeing either the recent Money Programme special or the two Trevor MacDonald/Quentin Wilson programmes) I can't help feeling that the P4/5 probably started out with more of a head start than the BMW bashers will admit (bugger all immediate debt, a big loan, a pretty reasonable model range etc etc), tried for a year or two and then got way out of their depth and realising this sought to line their own nests...

At best the P4/5 were naive, spineless and foolish; at worst they were criminal.

Anyway, I'll shut up now!

Just hope something good comes out of it myself.

Malcolm

totally agree with the above

£1000 p/w seat on your fat lazy arse screwing bottom door bolts on all day

unions ed this country up

And I haven't even started on politicians - my favourite example being cancelling the BR tilting train when it's almost sorted...just so we can buy pretty much the same thing (only uglier IMHO) from Italian companies a decade or so later.

AAAAARRGHH!!!!!!

@GeraintUk: I did just read exactly the same ona german newspaper homepage. It says that the MF-TF has also been sold to SAIC more or less by "accident"
IF this is true, the sales negotiations of MG-Rover was REALLY poor

Here´s the quote:
"MG-Sportwagen "aus Versehen" an Chinesen verkauft

Von unserem Korrespondenten DIETER CLAASSEN (Die Presse) 21.06.2005

Rover-Überreste unter dem Hammer. Die Gläubiger des bankrotten Automobilkonzerns fürchten, weitgehend leer auszugehen.

LONDON. Über dem Torso des einstigen Champions der britischen Automobilbranche, MG Rover, kreisen ab Donnerstag die Geier. Mangels Masse wird für die 1700 Gläubiger wohl kaum etwas übrig bleiben. 1,4 Mrd. Pfund (2,08 Mrd. Euro) an Forderungen stehen Vermögenswerte von 85 Mill. Pfund gegenüber. Für die Forderungen werden möglicherweise nur fünf Prozent Deckung bereit stehen, schätzt Konkursverwalter PriceWaterhouseCoopers.

Doch das war die Schätzung von gestern. Nun sickerte durch, dass die Rover-Führung die noch verbliebene Perle des Konzerns, die Konstruktionsrechte für MG Sportwagen, versehentlich an die Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. abgegeben hat. Mit dieser wollte Rover eine Partnerschaft eingehen, bevor der Versuch im April scheiterte und Rover in den Bankrott stürzte.


Der ehemalige Rover-Chef John Towers und seine drei Ko-Direktoren (in der Öffentlichkeit auch verächtlich als "Viererbande" bezeichnet) sehen sich damit jetzt dem Vorwurf ausgesetzt, sich nicht nur an Rover bereichert zu haben, sondern obendrein noch inkompetent und grob fahrlässig mit dem Erbe des einstigen Flaggschiffs des britischen Automobilbaus umgegangen zu sein.

"Wahrscheinlich bekommen wir gar nichts mehr", meint ein ehemaliger Rover-Händler und Gläubiger. Damit gibt er die Befürchtung der meisten Gläubiger wieder. "Es droht ein Nullsummenspiel." Der Iran und der russische Millionär Nikolai Smolenski, der bereits den britischen Sportwagenhersteller TVR besitzt, haben angeblich signalisiert, sie wollten Rover "komplett" übernehmen. Drei potenzielle Käufer sind dagegen nur an MG interessiert.


DiePresse.com"

Got to agree with Malcolm on pretty much all points.

John you're behaving in the same way as you accuse the Media, biased 'I know what a Rover/Program about Rover is going to be about therefore I don't need to test drive it/watch it'

I suppose it's the media's fault the Rover had cack productivity too is it?

Maybe ... but, my judgement is based on 40 years observing past media form ... how about you?

BTW, did I REALLY miss anything by abstaining? ...

Ah John, stop being such a stick-in-the-mud!

IrishRover wrote:I didn't get to see part 2. Did anyone record this?

John, have a look at part1 here: http://www.newpcworld.com/cars/rover/mo ... _part1.avi

Part 2 download link anyone?

Peter