Avatar..

[stefaclese]

Personally i think Peter Jacksons directing style would work really well in Avatars 3D as well.

So you mean special effects would look good in 3D?

[munky]

isnt that all avatar is anyway?

[rovex]

Personally i think Peter Jacksons directing style would work really well in Avatars 3D as well.

So you mean special effects would look good in 3D?

Its the way he does panning shots that would work very well in 3D. Its not about effects, its about cinematography.

Avatar has to be more than just special effects. No film that takes that much can do so on effects alone. There have been many other special effects films that have failed to take massive money and none have had a box office run pattern like Avatars. These days (the last 15 years or so) films dont have prolonged flat runs. They open big then drop off. Even The Dark Knight only took about 4x its a opening weekends total, which is a good multiplier for a blockbuster (Twilight: New Moon barely managed 2x), but Avatar will do nearly 10x. It can only do that if its appealing to multiple demographics and it can only do that if its appealing on more than its effects alone.

[munky]

Do you walk into things a lot? doors, walls etc?

Just... it must be hard to get around with those blinkers on...

Marketing is a very powerful thing.

[rovex]

Its not the first film to have been marketed you know besides ive seen less advertising for Avatar than for Percy Jackson and the lightening thief!

Ive not seen any marketing that would specifically appeal to 50 something couples or 80 year olds, yet they are going to see Avatar. We get that you dont like it, but you have to face it, its getting people to watch it who wouldnt normally go to an effects based SciFi movie.

[munky]

I thought it was based on panning shots, not effects?

[rovex]

That was in reference to Lord of the Rings, not Avatar.

[munky]

I know. I was being sarcastic.

theres a lot more to a good film than its box office takings. Some of the best and most critically acclaimed films of all time have abysmal takings, and vice versa. This film does nothing but reinforce my opinion.

[rovex]

I completely agree, but to say Avatar is purely making its money on effects is wrong. If it was it would have followed the usual pattern any normal film takes, a big opening and a heavy drop. The bigger the drop, the worse the film or the smaller the market for it. Avatar has only just crossed the point where its taking half as much per weekend as it was when it opened. At the same point The Dark Knight was taking a tenth.

[munky]

its the first widely marketed 3d film.

thats all.

[rovex]

True, but your seriously under estimating its box office if you think that's all there is to it. Its not the first film to peak it head above Titanics huge gross due to inflation as might eventually be expected. In 12 years no film has come anywhere near Titanic worldwide, the biggest film, of recent years, The Dark Knight took just over $1Billion. Titanic took $1.84Bilion world wide. Its nearest competitor, Return of the King, took £1.12Billion. Avatar is going to take $2.7 billion or there abouts. Thats astounding, even for a heavily marketed 3D film its just astonishing. That kind of box office cannot be purely due to 3D. We've had 3D films before that went nowhere or were mediocre (Ice age 3, Hanna Montana, Up). Avatar isn't a sequel or a franchise film either, which hurts its chances. In recent years only sequels or franchises have taken big money.

Im not saying its the best film ever, but something other than the 3D gimmick is making it take such a massive amount. Its taking 4x as much as any other 3D film, and its marketing budget is only on par with other blockbusters out in 2009. Its not that heavily marketed. Transformers 2 had a similar marketing budget, but took just $850Million World wide.

[munky]

so... you liked it then?

or did you write it? act in it? major shareholder?

I wonder why it didnt win any globes for the actors... or screenplay... or anything but the ubiquitous (and of very dubious merit) 'best film' and 'best director'...

It takes more than a glossy coat for me to think a film is good... like a good story, a good script and some acting...

It was very well marketed, you couldnt look out the window without some reference to it or advert, the company behind it even made episodes of certain popular tv shows where the plot was entirely dedicated to it, prior to its release. It was on every talk show, every magazine, every newspaper and every major revenue ad break, the world over, for MONTHS before it came out. How you can possibly think it had a small marketing budget is completely beyond me... they dont spend 250 million on a film then give it a small marketing budget. It was like the f***ing plague...

Effects, marketing, 3d. That is all. The fact your only reasoning for it being a good film is that 'it must have something else to it' to make the kind of money it has speaks volumes...

WHAT?? what does it have... If you can manage it, try and reply to that question without mentioning box office take,. cos about 2/3 of the reviews I have read of it really dont rate THE FILM that highly at all, though they do praise the marketing...

[rovex]

Did i say it had a small marketing budget? NO. It was about the same as Transformers 2. Thats a fact, like it or not. Did i say it was the best film ever? NO. It was a decent film that looked great, but its hardly the best film ever (or even the best film of 2009). All i said is that it had something that appealed beyond the 3D gimmick. Just like Titanic and the rest of the top ten all time, it didn't win acting awards, but it must have something over and above just 3D to make so much. Mediocre films don't make so much, whether you agree or not.

Its Rotten Tomatoes rating is 82%, thats pretty good actually.

TV shows did indeed take the mick out/mirror of its story, but it wasn't paid for by Fox, it happened because it was a cultural meme. Nothing to do with marketing im afraid, so your wrong on that point.

In case your wondering my favourite films of 2009 are Star trek, District 9, Inglorious Basterds, then Up. Avatar is some way down the list. The difference between me and you is i can understand why Avatar is where it is. Hell if Transformers 2, possibly the dumbest, most stupid film of 2009 can be number 2 of that year then here is no reason Avatar cant be number 1.

[munky]

Nothing to do with fox?

How do you think it became a 'cultural meme' before it was released?

[618ireland]

its getting people to watch it who wouldnt normally go to an effects based SciFi movie.

Defo true, but they walk out thinking it was essentially not great at all. There is a lad at work who is big onto TVs (not the cross dressers), DVDs and all that stuff, the way he was going on about avator you'd think 'twas better than two Swedish porn stars (female) in bed with you of a Saturday morning. I was well dissapointed after seeing it, the story line is p1ss poor, it wouldn't rival Rocky Balboa in that department. The whole thing is a tad retarded really, watching a guy falling in love with a weird standing up dog that speaks English and looks half female.

The 3D bit is fairly impressive though.

[rovex]

Nothing to do with fox?

How do you think it became a 'cultural meme' before it was released?

It wasnt. Quite how you think it was i don't know. Sorry but your in the minority if you think it was massively over marketed before its release. In fact the trailers were not very well received at all in fact, and box office predictions were in the range of $300M US domestic/$650M world wide. The evidence just doesn't support that it was hyped. Since its release it has become a phenomenon, but its not the marketing that's done that.. If marketing alone can do that why hasn't Transformers 2 taken so much? Or The Dark Knight? or Harry Potter? Even The lord of the Rings didnt do as well and that was as hyped as its possible to get. The second Matrix film was hyped beyond belief, but that fell flat. Frankly Avatar wasnt anything like as hyped you make out it was. Ive only ever seen 3 TV ads for Avatar, there are no Avatar billboard ads at all in my home city and the hype in movies magazines like Empire has been minimal.

The fact is something about it is popular and it is getting many repeat viewings (so people are not leaving disappointed with it). Its obvious to most that James Cameron knows how to push people buttons. If you are immune to it then fair enough, but clearly thats not the case for most people. Next week it will pass Mama Mia as the highest grossing film in the UK ever.

If you understand how the box office usually works you'd understand that Avatar isnt just a normal film taking big money. It behaving completely differently to a normal blockbuster. Movies that are hype driven take money early, but Avatar is holding in away that hasn't been seen in 12 years. It didnt open that big, in fact it didnt break the December opening record that is held by 'I am Legend' (of all things). If you want to understand why its so different you should have a look at the boxofficemojo.com forums.

[munky]

maybe its become.... dun dun duuuunnnnn.... self aware!!!!

you are the most blinkered person I have ever known. Your naivety is quite endearing though, so I'll just 'admit defeat' as this is like banging my head against a wall made out of compressed fanbois...

Enjoy the movie, by the sounds of it you'll go and see it at least 5 more times.

[rovex]

Your the blind one since ive already said it was an OK movie that looked great. My interest is in the box office take, not the quality of the movie itself. Ive seen it twice and dont intend to see it again until its on Blu-ray. You think im a fanboy? It barely makes my top ten of the year as a movie. As an event its easily the most important movie of the year. Im a fan of its achievements more than i am of it itself. Seeing Titanic at the top of every record list was getting boring.

Im not making a value judgement im simply saying people must see more in it than effects otherwise it wouldnt take so much.They must see something in the story that the haters dont see. The same is true for Titanic, which im not a fan of at all. Maybe to some the story is somewhat original, perhaps they have never seen Dances with wolves, Ferngully etc. I havent seen Dances with Wolves (i can't stand Kevin Costner for a start). Word of mouth for avatar has to be good, there is no way it could have a box office hold like this if it was getting bad word of mouth.

[munky]

ok.

[618ireland]

(i can't stand Kevin Costner for a start)

Didn't you like the Bodyguard so ? I thought that was an ok film, much better than you no what

[rovex]

Cant stand Costner or Whitney, so that film is on to a major loser. lol That song is a crime against humanity, her version is anyway.

[munky]

only 3 oscars... and not even best film.

What an injustice.

[rovex]

No really, its not Best picture, but then neither is The Hurt Locker. I disagree on some of the sound Oscars and Director. There is just so much more work involved in Avatar than The Hurt Locker that Cameron deserves it, best film or not.

Im sure Cameron isnt too worried. Avatar is number 1 all time in many countries (including here), and has taken so much that on its own its number 2 on the world wide trilogies list, the only trilogy that has taken more is lord of the rings.

[munky]

Curiosity killed the... chances... of all the other summer hollywood tat blockbusters last year... tbh.

I cracked, I got that bored... so shoot me.

So far, I'm 20 minutes in....

pro's - sigourney weaver (well its a film for sci-fi geeks... who else???) and the guy who played phoebe's brother in friends... (he may have been in 'my name is earl too... I forget)...

con's - unobtanium? seriously???

oh dear god... standards... lowered... a LOT

ps: there are a LOT more 'wow'... really?!' moments... the xbox graphics filter is one... I guess you needed 3d, cos this looks like a 3 hour long cut-scene...

But we'll just concentrate on the one thing for now... unobtanium??

I didnt realise it was a DC film... when does wonderwoman arrive?

[rovex]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtanium

[PJW]

Ive got it, but not watched it yet. Watched Zombieland instead. How the F did you get onto the topic of the sodding Bodyguard?

[radddogg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtanium

I thought unobtanium was a K series without HGF?

[munky]

Ive got it, but not watched it yet. Watched Zombieland instead. How the F did you get onto the topic of the sodding Bodyguard?

I wouldnt bother. Its truly shocking.

I fell asleep after about an hour of thinly veiled racial stereotypes shouting at each other.

Can see how it would be pretty in 3d though.

[rich12345]

Poccohantes (sp) storyline tbh!!!!!

[rich12345]

bother knows how Hurtlocker got so many awards though as i thought Avatar was better than that tbh!

[munky]

because it had some acting and a storyline?

[radddogg]

because it had some acting and a storyline?

I must have missed that bit then

[rovex]

Some being the qualifier there.. It wasnt that great really.

Avatar certainly isnt the best film ever, but was a good pop corn flick, some people just cant relax enough to enjoy such a mindless film. Ive had the same issue with 2012. Sure its stupid beyond belief, but boy does it look good. Its a film, films dont have to make sense. Ill be buying the Blu-ray, getting drunk and watching it on the 50 inch plasma thats at the end of my bed. Its worth it just for the visuals and sound.

Obviously its immune to criticism since its taken $2.7B (more than any trilogy except LOTR), most people just dont care about its weaknesses or (somewhat) over played racial stereotyping.

[munky]

i think you'll be sadly disappointed.

Its so obvious it was made just for the 3d that in 2d it really does look like a cut scene from a game. (and I was watching it on my 42" plasma, in HD, before you start).

at no point at all did I think 'this looks realistic'... it should have been in 'best animated' at the oscars cos I think I counted about 2 minutes of it that actually had real things in them... it might have won.

I'm all for a popcorn flick, if thats all it wants to be. 2012, Independence Day, etc etc... all good ways to kill a couple of hours and thats all they try to be.

All the 'hidden' (lol) meaning and attempted symbolism/be good to each other american over emotional claptrap, in avatar just came across as pretentious and a bit condescending tbh.

Hurt locker was ok, it kept my interest and I'm not really a fan of 'war' films. Not amazing, just ok. More deserving of recognition than avatar though.

[rovex]

Ive already seen Avatar in 2D, it looked better if anything. Digital 3D tends to wash out the colours and gives everything a grey cast.