Anyone a member of the A.L.F ?

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:21 pm

Anyone or an associate of anyone a member of this organisation?

Its not actually illegal to be a member is it?

Dont want to start a debate, just wondered if there were many people around...

PJW · Post by **PJW** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:27 pm

Taken from their site:

Please

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:28 pm

AFAIK it isnt illegal in the same way the sinn fein isnt illegal.

Lets put it this way anyone involved with the ALF in any way will never have any security clearance.

Personally i think they are as big a bunch of idiots as the taliban or al queda, too many big ideas with not enough brains.

just my tuppence worth

shen · Post by **shen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:28 pm

lsa wrote:Taken from their site:

Please

corrected

and....LOL!

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:29 pm

???!!!

shen · Post by **shen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:30 pm

I do know of that a certain place that stores little piggies to test dental work on.... always makes me chuckle thinking of them trotting round with a full set of pimped up gold caps in

can't mention where as there's too many loonies about that would think it cruel...

my opinnion is this...if you don't want testing on animals....

offer yourselves up for drug testing , i'm certain that if you waived all rights then scientists would be much happier having live human test subjects than ensuring drug safety by having to test on animals.

Would be two birds with one stone as it would also perhaps get rid of many animal activists

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:32 pm

i dont totaly disagree with what they campain against, but there ARE good reasons for animal testing and bad reasons.

There methods however leave alot to be desired.

Post by **SubCat001** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:39 pm

I don't see anything wrong with Alf personally.

Shame it wasn't rerun more regularly

.

teethgrinder · Post by **teethgrinder** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:53 pm

Hate the soap-dodging hippy great guys, I love em.

Would like to round then all up with 3.30am raids and douse then in HF. Same with hunt sabs. There needs to be some balance whereby pro testing/hunting/choice activists terrorise the hippy fine china and their families at all and any hour of the day.

Or something

BiGGuy · Post by **BiGGuy** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:02 pm

Used to work for a company that supplied life sciences and we were targetted by the ALF, and TBH it was pretty scary at times, therefore, I know what I would like to do to any member of this group

All for animal testing for advancement in medicine, but not for beauty products, or anything not related to the above.

Also personally dont agree with hunting, but I do respect anyones opinion that is different

empsburna · Post by **empsburna** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:44 pm

many moons ago when working for a loss adjusters a local office of a big insurance broker got targeted because they had indirect dealing with animal testing!

618ireland · Post by **618ireland** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:40 am

Squaddiemodo wrote:AFAIK it isnt illegal in the same way the sinn fein isnt illegal.

Lets put it this way anyone involved with the ALF in any way will never have any security clearance.

Personally i think they are as big a bunch of idiots as the taliban or al queda, too many big ideas with not enough brains.

just my tuppence worth

Sinn Fein is a political party, same as labour etc. Sinn Fein has TDs (members of parliament) and are quite legitimate. Personally I am not a fan of them. They concentrate their canvassing activities in areas where unemployment, joyriding, drugs etc are huge problems (obviously this wouldn't be in their official policies). However drawing analagies between Sinn Fein and the "group" this thread is about is rather ludicrous. Apologies if you are referring to a different Sinn Fein, rather than the political party in Ireland.

Squaddiemodo · Post by **Squaddiemodo** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:44 am

618ireland wrote:
Squaddiemodo wrote:AFAIK it isnt illegal in the same way the sinn fein isnt illegal.

Lets put it this way anyone involved with the ALF in any way will never have any security clearance.

Personally i think they are as big a bunch of idiots as the taliban or al queda, too many big ideas with not enough brains.

just my tuppence worth
Sinn Fein is a political party, same as labour etc. Sinn Fein has TDs (members of parliament) and are quite legitimate. Personally I am not a fan of them. They concentrate their canvassing activities in areas where unemployment, joyriding, drugs etc are huge problems (obviously this wouldn't be in their official policies). However drawing analagies between Sinn Fein and the "group" this thread is about is rather ludicrous. Apologies if you are referring to a different Sinn Fein, rather than the political party in Ireland.

I am refering to the sinn fein of old, not the modern huggable sinn fein. and i draw the analogy from the fact that the ALF is a political pressure group (just as sinn fein was at the start) which has a rather dumb paramilitary arm.

spyder · Post by **spyder** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:53 am

alien liberation front?

who are the alf? dont thik i've ever heard of them...

edit:

animal liberation front?

if so lol. they even got a POW list.

not a member obviously but i'd think about joining up n fighting the good fight.

the pic at the top is right tho

"live for nothing, die for nothing"

richard moss · Post by **richard moss** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:56 am

The trouble with nutters like the ALF is that they believe that two wrongs DO make a right. So whilst they say that harming/killing animals is wrong, they seem to think that harming/killing people is OK if those people are involved (in even the most remote way) with animal testing.

Their policy of releasing Mink from farms has devastated some areas of the countryside - leading to the deaths of many more wild animals (voles, rabbits etc) at the hands/claws/teeth of the Mink than the number of Mink that would have died if they'd done nothing. The trouble is that they were too stupid to think through the consequences of their actions beforehand.

shen · Post by **shen** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:10 pm

spyder wrote:
not a member obviously but i'd think about joining up n fighting the good fight.

the pic at the top is right tho

"live for nothing, die for nothing"

the good fight?
live for something?

tested animals live for something and they don't die for nothing...

when a member of your famaily is dying and there are drugs which could save them but unfortunately haven't been tested so you can't get em...think on.

Keeping medicine back in the dark ages is hardly a good fight now is it?

If you wanna live for something and agree with ALF do as I suggested and offer yourself up for testing to save the fluffy wikkle bunnies.

They're all tree hugging psychos imho and need culling.

Also remember the animals bred for testing would never have been born were it not for the need to test on them.
Same as the loonies who say don't do stem cell research...there's always gotta be a set of idiots that hinder the advancement of medicine and technology for the negative effects it will have on the world.

spyder · Post by **spyder** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:26 pm

tested animals live for something and they don't die for nothing...

i wasnt referring to animals there.

its not the testing that i have a problem with, its how its done.

richard moss · Post by **richard moss** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:40 pm

shen wrote:when a member of your family is dying and there are drugs which could save them but unfortunately haven't been tested so you can't get em...think on.

Ask Paul MacCartney - when Linda MacCartney was dying of cancer, they used everything they could get their hands on - including drugs tested on animals.

They had previously said that animal testing was wrong, that they'd never use drugs tested on animals etc. However, after Linda died, Paul admitted that they'd gone back on their principles and used drugs tested on animals.

Personally, I don't like the idea of such testing, but being realistic I may one day need some drugs tested that way so I'm not going to stop it. Testing cosmetics on animals is another story all together - animals should not have to suffer because women want to look a little bit younger (even though they should realise that men can see straight though the war paint).

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:27 pm

spyder wrote:
its not the testing that i have a problem with, its how its done.

AFAIK any test program that involves live subjects (human or animal) is subject to approval from an independent ethics commitiee.

Or this only for medical and educational research?

618ireland · Post by **618ireland** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:36 pm

Squaddiemodo wrote:
I am refering to the sinn fein of old, not the modern huggable sinn fein. and i draw the analogy from the fact that the ALF is a political pressure group (just as sinn fein was at the start) which has a rather dumb paramilitary arm.

That's happy out, as I said modern Sinn Fein is quite legit.

teethgrinder · Post by **teethgrinder** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:14 pm

Animals bred for medical research (pre-clinical studies etc) are treated and kept in far more 'humane' conditions that their wild counterparts. No starvation as there's plenty of food and water and certainly nothing with big bother-off teeth waiting to evicerate them after a long chase.

Once the animal research is complete the drug can then be advanced to clinical trial stage where ethics comittees, government health authorities and a european comittee all have to approve the trial (based partly on the animal research).

This does not necessarily mean that the IMP (investigational medicinal product) is safe in humans (remember TGN142, though that was biotech, not chemical) but a damn good indicator and the best we have at the moment.

Certainly disagree with cosmetic testing on beasts though.

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:20 pm

spyder wrote:
tested animals live for something and they don't die for nothing...
i wasnt referring to animals there.

its not the testing that i have a problem with, its how its done.

I think the same.

They are not exacly treated like pets.

What about screaming monkeys kept in cages so small they cant move properly? All stainless steel.

Dogs "debarked" and kept in similar conditions.

Kittens have thier backs broken to check pain response.

Its not all about testing though either:-

Foie Gras... sickening practice, sickening conditions.

Battery egg farming.

Veal.... another sickening process.

Whaling with explosive harpoons, sometimes the whale taking hrs to die.

Animals skinned alive for fur, thrown onto piles of dying skinned corpses. (dogs and raccoons)

Live calves transported for up to 100hrs crammed in, arriving dead, or alive with broken limbs.

Im no vegetarian, but the utter contempt and lack of respect that some peole have for animals/creatures amazes me.

I find it inredible that some people derive pleasure from harming things that can offer no real defence.

As a species, we should know better, as we are as developed and supposedly as civilised as we have ever been.

We are lucky enough to have any creature, even an insect or a flaming snake, so I find cruel treatment of animals utterly abhorrent.

There was an interesting article recently about human sensory deprivation in a dark room, in solitary confinement.

The test subjects started pacing back and forth after a day or so, as they were going mental.

Caged animals often pace up and down, in a state of mental anguish at not being able to roam.

Human prisoners in jail also undergo significant mental changes with the confinement of the cell, although I suspect their treatment is slightly better than a Veal calf, or a Foie Gras duck that has a damaging metal tube forced down its throat 3 times a day.

Im sure if more people knew more about the gruesome practices of "Factory Farming" and SOME lab testing centres, the tide would turn.

Im pretty sure the lab guys arent tickling the mouse/rabbit under the chin when they do a live vivesection because they cant be arsed to kill them properly/humanely.

....Er, rant over!

darwin · Post by **darwin** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:36 pm

rcrossco_1 wrote:
spyder wrote:
tested animals live for something and they don't die for nothing...
i wasnt referring to animals there.

its not the testing that i have a problem with, its how its done.
I think the same.

They are not exacly treated like pets.

What about screaming monkeys kept in cages so small they cant move properly? All stainless steel.

Dogs "debarked" and kept in similar conditions.

Kittens have thier backs broken to check pain response.

Whaling with explosive harpoons, sometimes the whale taking hrs to die.

Animals skinned alive for fur, thrown onto piles of dying skinned corpses. (dogs and raccoons)

Live calves transported for up to 100hrs crammed in, arriving dead, or alive with broken limbs.

There was an interesting article recently about human sensory deprivation in a dark room, in solitary confinement.

The test subjects started pacing back and forth after a day or so, as they were going mental.

Caged animals often pace up and down, in a state of mental anguish at not being able to roam.

Im pretty sure the lab guys arent tickling the mouse/rabbit under the chin when they do a live vivesection because they cant be arsed to kill them properly/humanely.

....Er, rant over!

Doubt any of this goes on in the UK .
We have some of the strictest animal rights laws in the world .
I work for the Dept of Agriculture , Veterinary Science Division (I work in a chemistry lab testing bloods from live sick animals for proteins, minerals enzymes etc. I dont work directly with animals or kill them or anything like that)) , I've been on a Home Office animal handling course .
UK based organisations like ALF think they're doing good by fire-bombing or freeing animals from labs , but VERY VERY few if any testing is done for beauty products in the UK . Most research is for medical reasons and the VAST majority of it is done on rodents , not chimps or dogs or cats . There are very strict guidlines on the treatment of animals .
Whenever they threaten staff or fire-bomb places or whatever , does the research completely stop - no , it just get it done in countries with little or no animal rights laws .

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:44 pm

Well admittedly we dont harpoon Whales anymore, but we used to.

Im not condoning the ALF, but I would have little sympathy for a Fur trader who was killed in an Arson attack.

Edit:- Your statements do provide some positives at least within the testing environment anyway.

t220cat · Post by **t220cat** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:04 pm

These people (if you can call them people) and their organizations are not a million miles away from being terrorists

,
They are cowards who hide behind balacalavas and attack in groups, damaging peoples property etc, just like low life scumbag chavs,

Usually made up of unemployed, warped, fcuked up on drugs, hippy, mature student losers with nothing better to do with themselves,
Now ask yourself do you really want to be a associated with them,
And they are fighting a lost cause, do you really think they can compete with government backed multi-billion pound major pharmacuetical companys

:
My advise would be get on with your life and enjoy the benefits of modern medicines

Here is an example of what they do and are involved with, pure scumbags

;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 176446.stm

As you can probably tell, these sort of people wind me right up :!: :!:

shen · Post by **shen** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:25 pm

t220cat wrote:These people (if you can call them people) and their organizations are not a million miles away from being terrorists ,
They are cowards who hide behind balacalavas and attack in groups, damaging peoples property etc, just like low life scumbag chavs,
Usually made up of unemployed, warped, fcuked up on drugs, hippy, mature student losers with nothing better to do with themselves,
Now ask yourself do you really want to be a associated with them,
And they are fighting a lost cause, do you really think they can compete with government backed multi-billion pound major pharmacuetical companys :
My advise would be get on with your life and enjoy the benefits of modern medicines

Here is an example of what they do and are involved with, pure scumbags ;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 176446.stm

As you can probably tell, these sort of people wind me right up :!: :!:

totally agree....

why not make things real fun....

Let's start an anti-animal liberation AALF or

AARGHH - animal activist Retaliation group for human help

... nicking grannies remains and not giving them back is really not on imo

They make me sick that theyre the hippie types that believe in freedom of expression, speech and action so that gives them the right for their voice to be heard by going to such measures.

Can't I express myself by testing on animals?

BiGGuy · Post by **BiGGuy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:28 pm

rcrossco_1 wrote:Well admittedly we dont harpoon Whales anymore, but we used to.

Im not condoning the ALF, but I would have little sympathy for a Fur trader who was killed in an Arson attack.

Edit:- Your statements do provide some positives at least within the testing environment anyway.

Fantastic!!!!!

So its ok to murder someone because they are in the fur trade

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:14 pm

BiGGuy wrote:
rcrossco_1 wrote:Well admittedly we dont harpoon Whales anymore, but we used to.

Im not condoning the ALF, but I would have little sympathy for a Fur trader who was killed in an Arson attack.

Edit:- Your statements do provide some positives at least within the testing environment anyway.
Fantastic!!!!!

So its ok to murder someone because they are in the fur trade

Yes, I think so. Too many people on the planet as it is, might as well murder a few of the ones who have contempt for life.

Stealth213S · Post by **Stealth213S** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:50 pm

Animal rights activists summed up here.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=n0YxsVxD8sg.

teethgrinder · Post by **teethgrinder** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:52 pm

rcrossco_1 wrote:
BiGGuy wrote:
rcrossco_1 wrote:Well admittedly we dont harpoon Whales anymore, but we used to.

Im not condoning the ALF, but I would have little sympathy for a Fur trader who was killed in an Arson attack.

Edit:- Your statements do provide some positives at least within the testing environment anyway.
Fantastic!!!!!

So its ok to murder someone because they are in the fur trade

Yes, I think so. Too many people on the planet as it is, might as well murder a few of the ones who have contempt for life.

I particularly don't like Robbie 'teacup' Williams, but even I baulk at anyone with one of his albums being burnt to death.

A condition of supply POM's (prescription only medicines) on the NHS should be that you sign a legally binding statement that you agree with animal testing, understand that ANY medicine on the market in the UK gets it's PL on the basis of animal testing and that you in no way support the ALF or any other cowardly terrorist scum. If you are found to be lying, you forgoe the right to any NHS treatment whatsoever. And your kids, until they turn 16.

So there.

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:58 pm

Medicine is rather different to skinning animals for fur.

I dont disagree with medicinal testing, at all.

Its the treatment of some of the animals that I disagree with.

The ALF seemed a little overkill with that breeding centre, however, if conditions were cruel, then he deserved some of the flak.

teethgrinder · Post by **teethgrinder** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:08 pm

Nothing wrong with the fur trade, either. I would say if someone is mistreating animals - fur trade down to the mental bint with dozens of cats to the charva scummers with those stupid bull terriers - then the full force of current laws be brought down on them.

Sod it - Burn 'em

I like the odd jaunt down the fields with my air rifle to knack bunnies and grey squiggles in the face. Don't take the shot if I can't pretty much guarantee the kill shot, though.

T_16 · Post by **T_16** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:20 pm

teethgrinder wrote:Nothing wrong with the fur trade, either.

Errrrr. do some research dude.

Why do you think theres an international effort to bring it to a halt...

(well, invoving decent countries)

BiGGuy · Post by **BiGGuy** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:35 pm

rcrossco_1 wrote:
teethgrinder wrote:Nothing wrong with the fur trade, either.

Errrrr. do some research dude.

Why do you think theres an international effort to bring it to a halt...

(well, invoving decent countries)

So lets get this right, you advocate the burning to death of human beings, but want to keep the welfare of fluffy animals at the top of your agenda???

I totally agree that with the exception of medical testing, no harm should come to any animals, even through hunting, but I would not wish death on someone who didnt agree with my opinions.

After all, surely we should look at our actions and how we treat other human beings before we look at animals.

IMO there are too many humanitarians issues to be concerned about at present before I can worry about bambi and co.

Post by **Punx0r** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:36 pm

Abhorent treatment of animals in the collection of fur etc is IMO an entirely difference issue to medical research in the UK.

I do believe that animal cosmetic testing is wrong. The companies should pay for human tests on the basis that the products won't be dangerous.

I don't support any animal-rights organisation in this country. rcrossco_1 I suspect that many of the items on your list are propaganda. I can recall a study on the use of explosive harpoons on whales and it was found that death was practically instant, but "signs of life" could persist for the times mentioned.

A while ago I watched a televised debate over (IIRC) Cambridge Uni's new animal research lab, which was under construction at the time. One one side were doctors, scientists and acedemics. On the other were the best spokes-people for the animal rights nutters. The activists tended to stick rigidly to their mantras despite many points of their often repeated diatribe being effectively countered. The source of ignorance and blinkered thinking in the room soon became obvious.

Edit: I would go as far as to say that they are terrorist, not just akin to them.