Calling all Rovertech DIY'ers and Plumbers!

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:25 am

Ok guys,

I've just bought a house and we've got a dishwasher. Problem is that the dishwasher is on the opposite site of the kitchen to the sink and washing machine and there's no plumbing for it

.

Plumbing the water supply to it won't be much of a problem (I'll just need to learn how to join copper pipes!

) but I can't see how I can sort out the waste :dunce:

.

Basically I was hoping to install some waste pipes and run them into the existing outlet for the sink but the problem is that it will have to go under the cooker then back up to the sink/washer outlet - so thatâ€™s no good right? As ill be sort making a big water trap won't I?

Can you get an extension for the flexible waste pipe that comes out of the back of the dishwasher - and just run that into the sink outlet (it would be about 5m - is that to far? I'm sure the handbook only recommends 2.5 as a max)

(I'll try and host a drawing so you can see what I mean as im not sure the above will make sense to anyone but me!! :wink:

)

Cheers

Andrew

marksmith · Post by **marksmith** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:51 am

I'm no plumber (see later*) but I believe waste pipe needs to run downhill over pretty much all of its length.

As for joining copper pipes, though - compression fittings are brilliant. About Â£1 each from B&Q (even cheaper elsewhere), and you need a pipe cutter (about Â£10), some wire wool and two big spanners. Buy a few spare olives (you'll see when you go to B&Q) and get some practice in first on an offcut of pipe, and you'll be laughing.

*While we're on the subject, the indoor valve (looks like a tap, that sort) for my garden tap has seized in the on position. Looks like it's leaked a tiny tiny bit and calcified in position. Not a problem yet, but I can't turn it off if I need to (winter's coming). One of these puppies :

So I got a load of penetrating oil on it, took the handle off and go the socket set on it. Whoops, that's burred off then.

The bit below the "shaft which should turn" can be turned out with a spanner but the "shaft which should turn" doesn't turn with it.

Does anyone know if I can just transplant part of the valve from a new one, rather than removing it all and putting a whole new one in (which would require removing the sink cupboard and hence sink = much hassle)?

Other alternative is to solder/braze a bigger nut onto the top of the shaft and see if I can turn that to break the seal which has formed, but I don't fancy the chances of the joint being strong enough...

Ta,
Mark[/img]

requestingaflyby · Post by **requestingaflyby** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:59 am

need a good inch or so fall on waste pipes,copper pipes joined with a bit of flux and a blow torch,wrap em with gaffer tape too as its been shown that that fluffy stuff(cant remember name) corrodes the copper pipes.

think thats correct but im a plasterer not a plumber!

steve-o · Post by **steve-o** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:39 am

Yep, I agree totally with "requestingaflyby" you need a gradual fall over the entire length of the run to avoid water traps and improve water flow. Your dish washer will pump out "x" gallons per minute and the speed at which you can get rid of this waste will depend on the bore of your waste pipe and the angle at which it decends. If you dont go by the book that came with the washer, the waste will just "back up" until its comes out at the dish washer end!!! And thats not good!

As for joining pipes, I again agree with "requestingaflyby" proper soldered fittings are by far better than anything else. Compression fittings with nuts and olives are in my oppinion "crap". They weep and are cumbersome to tighten properly and deteriorate over time. If you want a quick job, the push fittings are by far better than compression, they're quicker and easier and last longer even though they're only plastic!!! (yes you can use plastic push fit to join copper pipe). But on the whole if you wanna do a good job, then the old "blow torch and solder" is the best way.

As for what "requestingaflyby" was saying about covering with gaffer tape to stop corrosion, I've never heard of this, the only corrosion cause I'm aware of is that the left over flux (used to get a good fix with the solder to the pipe) can corrode the joints over time (leaves a sticky deposit which goes green when corrosion occurs) its important to wipe your joints clean and free from left over flux after fixing to stop the left over flux eating away at the pipes. I've never needed to use gaffer tape??? But then I'm a spark not a plumber!!!

Blah blah waffle waffle...........

requestingaflyby · Post by **requestingaflyby** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:02 pm

the gas blokey our subby uses told us that bout gaffer tape, some new legislation or summat

MGJohn · Post by **MGJohn** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:56 pm

Over the years, I used those unions with the built in solder for numerous Central Heating and Washing machine jobs. Also relocating a large radiator when patio doors replaced a window and wall. Running those hot and cold copper pipes round three kitchen walls to connect to the washing machine - relocating the bath - sunken radiator supply pipes in concrete floor.... all used the solder unions with a blow torch. Most of those untrained self taught DIY jobs done 10, 20 or more years ago. NO leaks at all. One or two compression joints used have started to show a merest trace of a leak though. None of the soldered ones though.

Always clean up the copper to bright metal with wet and dry or even a scouring pad. Always use some flux and your joints should last as well as mine have.

Oh yes, the waste pipe to the washing machine also ran round three walls (behind my DIY fitted cupboards) and I arranged a slight decline away throughout the run. No drainage problems.

If never used soldered joints before, do practice on some scrap lengths of pipe. Like many things, easy when you know how and practice will teach you that.

Ben Cole · Post by **Ben Cole** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:19 am

I notice replies from other tradesmen but not plumbers. I wonder why?

I'll tell you why, because none of them drive Rovers.

They all drive Ferraris and Porsches, well I expect they do with the f***ing prices they charge.

retro620ti · Post by **retro620ti** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:32 am

long long time ago far far away i was a wet plumber, and yes our prices are bloody stupid thats why im thinkin of goin back. Compression joins are total crap and are a last resort, if you cant solder get the pre-soldered jobbies and use plenty of flux on clean pipes and yes clean the pipes off after soldering, the pipe cutters are usefull so is a hacksaw as long as you de-burr the pipe afterwards, as for drainage you will need at least 5 degrees drop over the length of the pipe, look at where your sink and washing machine drain out , if its above the waste for the dishwasher then its no good and you will have to sort something else, sorry without actually seeing it and the main waste cant give you any ideas as it depends where your waste pipe runs to.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:26 am

Thanks for all the replies guys

If I run it at a slight decline to where the waste from the sink and washer goes through the wall to the outside it will end up below it. So I would have to drill a hole through the wall. Now, what's the minimum clearance I need between the ground outside and the hole? (the ground is actually decked)

Other thing ive noticed is that a lot closer to the dishwasher is the main down pipe from the upstairs bathroom, (but its boxed in) what will I be likely to find behind there? will it be one pipe for everything, or a pipe for sink, and bath, then another for the toilet? (really don't fancy hacking my way into the main sh1t pipe! :puking:

As for the water supply I'm not too worried about that, but from what everyone has said I'll have a crack using solider etc.

Cheers

Andrew

GeraintUk · Post by **GeraintUk** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:31 am

i have a plumber coming tomorrow night.

simple job cutting a pipe and moving it down another wall.
total pipe length about 4 metres.

i'm already expecting to feel as if i bent over and was violated, lol
my bank manager is already on high doom alert.

steve-o · Post by **steve-o** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:58 am

Andrew, yeah, the boxed in pipe from upstairs will almost certainly be your main soil pipe (a 100mm or 4" pipe) You'll find that the sink, bath and toilet waste are joined into this from upstairs and then its piped down an inside wall which had been boxed in.

I wouldnt try hacking into this myself to add your dishwasher to it, but I suppose it might be a possibility??? Its not something I've tried before so couldnt comment? I suppose you could split the main soil pipe at the appropriate height and then add a coupling with a "tee" connector for your dishwasher to go into? If you do anything with plastic pipe (waste) always use solvent joints (glued) as like soldering copper, glue is best.

Also dont forget to put a "p" trap in behind your washer. Basically drop the pipe that comes out the back of your washer, straight into a "p" trap, then do the rest of the drain pipe to where ever. You need the "p" to stop the smell from the drain coming back into the room, you'll definately need one if you go direct into the soil pipe or else all your pots and dishes will end up smelling like dung!!!

radddogg · Post by **radddogg** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:02 pm

steve-o wrote:But then I'm a spark not a plumber!!!

Are you? I thought you were a daredevil MTV loon

Ti-Andy · Post by **Ti-Andy** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:57 pm

Copper piping is So! yesterday :roll:

"Plastique" is the Future! Clunk Click..job done. Cheaper and none of that fancey smanshy soldering malarcky.

weirdjam · Post by **weirdjam** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:20 pm

I've never used flux on my copper to copper soldering! i don't need to but then i use special solder, I'd advise you to use solder, as long as the joint is clean with emery cloth and as has been said it needs to be very very shiney the cleaner the joint the better it will take. Like has also been said just practice on an offcut,
I'm not a plumber i'm better, i work on refrigeration our pipework is a lt small and more intricate, i also have oxybutune brazing kit instead of a blow torch!! I'm a firestared twisted firestarter!

You'll hae no problems.

retro620ti · Post by **retro620ti** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:28 pm

didnt the Beko refrigeration plant blow up when someone tried to solder a fridge with a full charge of r600a in it?....just love those oxybutane kits lol at least the plumbing aint gonna go bang on us

weirdjam · Post by **weirdjam** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:11 pm

I can quite believe it! Thats why we use vulkan lockrings on r600a systems. The only "declaredf" explosion we had was when one engineers butane cannister ruptured! thankfully he was ok.

From a currys sales assistant:
BEKO = Broken Electrical Kitchen Objects.

In all honesty the beko stuff is pretty good. cheap coz they make it, but then they sell most there fridges to other firms LEC etc etc who then badge it up as there own.

You can buy alot worse.

fluke · Post by **fluke** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:20 pm

I'm not a plumber but work for one of the biggest independent suppliers.
http://www.cabaldwin.com/

TurboMG · Post by **TurboMG** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:23 pm

Im a plumber, the copper fittings with the integral solder ring are known as "yorkshire fittings", the ones with out are "end feed".

You may find it easier to use the plastic push fit fittings as these are easier to use and can be used with copper and plastic pipe.

requestingaflyby · Post by **requestingaflyby** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:55 pm

well, id just scrap the pipes idea and get ya whole house replastered!

ill give a good price!LOL