Anyone a member of the A.L.F ?

[T_16]

So lets get this right, you advocate the burning to death of human beings, but want to keep the welfare of fluffy animals at the top of your agenda???

Yeah

Pretty much. They were here before us.

Doesnt bother me in the slightest humans being burnt to death. Plenty of them deserve it.

As animals dont have the human rationale, they are largely innocent creatures, that just do what comes naturally to them.


I know what you mean about the Whales, but thats only if they manage to target the right area.

Usually they miss, and it can take hrs.

I know what you mean about propaganda, the worlds full of it, but, I do try to be objective.

[teethgrinder]

By the logic of 'it was here first' then it would probably be best if those cuddly volcanoes did what they do best.

Didn't do those dinosaurs much cop, though.

All those furry beasts people like to save did a pretty good job of evolving into being tasty and having nice warn skin, though!

[BiGGuy]

Lets just hope you never need life saving medicine then. After all, I would not want to see you choose between your life or your morals.

Can I ask you are you a vegan vegetarian then???

[teethgrinder]

And...do you feel the same way about all animal culling for their skin/fur?

[T_16]

Lets just hope you never need life saving medicine then. After all, I would not want to see you choose between your life or your morals.

Can I ask you are you a vegan vegetarian then???

I have, and I did.

Fur trading has nothing to do with Lab testing.

I dont mind animal testing as long as its humane, and not traumatic.

A lot of it is just the opposite.

And...do you feel the same way about all animal culling for their skin/fur?

Yes I do. Its totally unnessecary.

Taking leather from a dead cow that was killed for meat is obviously ok.

No, Im not a vegan, or a vegetarian...

Why should the fact that I care about the welfare of living things mean I am a vegan ?

Its basic ethics and morality.

[BiGGuy]

So lets get this right then.

You are happy for a human to be burned to death, as animals were here first.

You are happy with animals being killed for meat.

But not for fur.

So if I killed a mink to eat it, and sold the fur, where would you stand on this.

Lets not forget that the methods for killing animals for meat can not really be described as humane in many circumstances.

[BiGGuy]

Its basic ethics and morality.

And so is, not wanting to burn people to death

[T_16]

Its basic ethics and morality.

And so is, not wanting to burn people to death

No animal deserves to be burnt to death.

Lots of humans deserve to die.

[teethgrinder]

The way abbatoirs in the UK produce meat is probably the most humane way of killing any animal - stunned with either a powerful electric shock or bolt gun, then throat slit.

And I'm not too sure whether the cow as used in leather production is the same as the cow one would eat. If, for example car leather - on perhaps a coupe - was not from a cow used in meat production, would you give up the leathers in your car?

[T_16]

The way abbatoirs in the UK produce meat is probably the most humane way of killing any animal - stunned with either a powerful electric shock or bolt gun, then throat slit.

And I'm not too sure whether the cow as used in leather production is the same as the cow one would eat. If, for example car leather - on perhaps a coupe - was not from a cow used in meat production, would you give up the leathers in your car?

OOOO

Tough one actually...

I thought no part went to waste, hence the hide was used for seats....

Most GOOD abbatoirs are ok.

Its the big ones, that process tonnes and tonnes of animals a day.

Doesnt matter to them what happens, just get them through.

Smaller ones take more care.

You also get psyco's who enjoy seeing the animals suffer.

Rare, granted, but it happens.

[BiGGuy]

So how do you work out where the meat you eat was killed to then??

I dont see labels on the back of packets telling you where it was killed???

[teethgrinder]

As much as I hate the great guys, I love em, PETA (people for ethical treatment of animals...NOT people who eat tasty animals) claim most of the leather in the world in made from beasts slaughtered specifically for the hide

http://www.cowsarecool.com/theFacts.asp

I couldn't care less personally, as I like my (half) leather but I'm betting car manufacturers source as cheap as possible and sell high on the options list.

[Punx0r]

I would have thought that larger abbtoirs would have greater investment in the killing equipment and better quality control.

Almost all leather is a byproduct of the meat industry, so your coupe interior is safe

The problem with saying that animals are inherently innocent and just do what they do, is that you could apply that to people with under-developed minds: "he doesn't know it's wrong, he just beats people up because he has the urge to"

Also, giving human rights (as some people want) to animals is IMO not practical. Because surely the animal would also have to have human reponsibility. E.g. if one animal kills another, then is the dead animals human right be that its killer is punished?

IMO it's a difficult subject (I struggle rationalising it sometimes) and you have to balance idealism against the benefits of medicene, the meat industry etc.

[Aquila]

The ALF are starry-eyed idiots raving against injustices that just do not exist. Animal research in this country is confined to pharmaceutical products only. Cosmetic nonsense goes to Eastern Europe and Asia.
These are of the same vein as the eco-twats going round cities vandalising 4x4's in the name of climate change, which is another load of rubbish.
They are people who have no real grasp of the scientific process, but think that their woolly realities are the way we should always live, not thinking for one minute that, if we stopped killing cattle, sheep, pigs and poultry for food, those animals would become extinct in a couple of years.
I am not a person given to acts of premeditated violence or psychopathy, but if I ever found out who the b@stard was who strung piano wire across a lane on a hunt, that caused my friend's horse to bleed to death due to severing its brachial artery and, in turn, putting her in a wheelchair for three years, their life would end in a lonely and quite prolonged world of pain.
People who denounce the human use of animals should stick to their guns and refuse all pharmaceutical treatments for their ills - or, better still, f^ck off to the Ngorongoro and try to stop the lions from eating the wildebeest...

[Punx0r]