Sentencing - place your bets!

Post by **Punx0r** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:09 am

What sentence length do people think these pieces of human detritus will be given?

http://www.24dash.com/news/communities/ ... -for-sport

stefaclese · Post by **stefaclese** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:17 am

Life sentence I would hope, although I'm not sure whether the 16 and 17 year olds will get longer sentences for being under 18 (pretty sure its 16 and over though).

I personally think they should be imprisoned for the rest of their sickening lives, and subjected to the kind of treatment they gave that poor man. What a sick country we live in.

stefaclese · Post by **stefaclese** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:19 am

One of the chavs mothers apparanlty tried to pervert the course of justice by washing the chavs blood stained clothes, she deserves what evers coming to her too.

Aquila · Post by **Aquila** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:54 am

Dress them up in Ku Klux Klan outfits, drug them and then drop them off in the middle of Harlem - natural, simple justice.

Or maybe just a 9mm to the back of the head (which seems a bit of an easy-out, considering how they tortured their poor bloody victim).

Or, better still, Community Service. Sweeping up leaves for a whole 200 hours of their lives - That'll teach 'em.

FFS

Fluke · Post by **Fluke** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:15 am

6 months in a nice cosy open prison, a Nintendo and a holiday to Disney Land for all the bad upbringing.

Oh and shoot the mother who washed the clothes

Semproxion · Post by **Semproxion** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:53 am

With all due respect to Raistlin (this isn't aimed at your good self)

They'll probably get one of these namby-pamby slap-on-the-wrist-and-don't-do-it-again judges.

From what I have read, this was nothing short of pre-mediated murder and should be sentenced as such.

I'm also a firm believer that the age of criminal responsibility should be lowered at least to 12 years old. Because quite frankly by that age we ALL know the difference between right & wrong (barring mental disorder)

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:43 am

They ought to take these people in their blood stained clothes, smear raw meat on them and stick them in the middle of the Tiger or Lion pen at a Safari Park, and release the animals.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:38 am

Reef wrote:With all due respect to Raistlin (this isn't aimed at your good self)

They'll probably get one of these namby-pamby slap-on-the-wrist-and-don't-do-it-again judges.

Judges are bound by the same sentencing guidelines we are.

I think that for the most part, it is not the attitude of the Judiciary which is at fault here.

Rather, the labyrinthine procedures put in place by the legislators.

I've said on previous occasions and I make no apology for saying it again:

The solution is in your own hands. If you don't like it, ( I, for one, certainly don't) lobby your MP and tell them about it. Get the law changed.

It can be done and indeed has been done. In fact, I'll make a prediction and say that the laws relating to speed cameras will change in the near future, owing to the pressure of public opinion.

Unfortunately, the bulk of the UK population has too much inertia and not enough understanding to do anything about it. There are some who don't even know who their local MP is, never mind the procedures to effectively lobby.

This is not a criticism but rather an explanation as to why the same arguments happen time and time again.

My local MP is FULLY aware of my opinions on the Sentencing Guidelines Council and knows that I never waste an opportunity to raise it with him. It needs a lot more people to do so though. THe legislators are not going to change anything upon the suggestion of one person, even if that person is me

Reef wrote:I'm also a firm believer that the age of criminal responsibility should be lowered at least to 12 years old.

It's already ten.

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:40 am

C2K wrote:They ought to take these people in their blood stained clothes, smear raw meat on them and stick them in the middle of the Tiger or Lion pen at a Safari Park, and release the animals.

Quite indigestible I'm sure

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:37 am

they'll get 3-6 years Maximum!

maybe cos it's national news if someone makes a big deal they might get more.....

A girl I went to school with was horrifically tortured for over a week and eventually died from her injuries..6 youths were responsible and all got 6 years or less.

The corroner said he'd never seen such injuries... over a week they beat her so badly and tortured her, forcing her to drink urine and bleach, stubbing cigs on her etc whilst keeping her in a cupboard....her ribcage had come away from her collar bone from repeated kicking and still they carried on.

They will now all be out and, about living morally upstanding lives in the community i'm sure.

Scumbags, these people should be put down or have a frontal lobottomy

dreaddan · Post by **dreaddan** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:33 am

either 6mnth or 1yr suspended and a few bob fine

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:38 am

dreaddan wrote:either 6mnth or 1yr suspended and a few bob fine

Be serious Dan, I send kids down for longer than that for street robbery and not suspended either.

dreaddan · Post by **dreaddan** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:34 pm

Raistlin wrote: Be serious Dan, I send kids down for longer than that for street robbery and not suspended either.

Well see. personally i hope they get life (and it to mean life), they'll get less than ppl expect the judge will say some thing like my hands are tied, the prisons are full. sorry I thought I'd written down life not 2 years.....

stefaclese · Post by **stefaclese** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:43 pm

shen wrote:they'll get 3-6 years Maximum!

maybe cos it's national news if someone makes a big deal they might get more.....

A girl I went to school with was horrifically tortured for over a week and eventually died from her injuries..6 youths were responsible and all got 6 years or less.

The corroner said he'd never seen such injuries... over a week they beat her so badly and tortured her, forcing her to drink urine and bleach, stubbing cigs on her etc whilst keeping her in a cupboard....her ribcage had come away from her collar bone from repeated kicking and still they carried on.

They will now all be out and, about living morally upstanding lives in the community i'm sure.

Scumbags, these people should be put down or have a frontal lobottomy

Surely these people aren't going to be safe once they're released? They deserve to be hunted like animals by a large mob armed with cricket bats and pitbull terriers.

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:57 pm

stefaclese wrote:
shen wrote:they'll get 3-6 years Maximum!

maybe cos it's national news if someone makes a big deal they might get more.....

A girl I went to school with was horrifically tortured for over a week and eventually died from her injuries..6 youths were responsible and all got 6 years or less.

The corroner said he'd never seen such injuries... over a week they beat her so badly and tortured her, forcing her to drink urine and bleach, stubbing cigs on her etc whilst keeping her in a cupboard....her ribcage had come away from her collar bone from repeated kicking and still they carried on.

They will now all be out and, about living morally upstanding lives in the community i'm sure.

Scumbags, these people should be put down or have a frontal lobottomy
Surely these people aren't going to be safe once they're released? They deserve to be hunted like animals by a large mob armed with cricket bats and pitbull terriers.

Indeed matey... but that wouldn't be fair now would it...so no doubt at the tax payers expense they'll all have been rehoused elsewhere in the UK.
There was no great noise made about their release....

only that her poor mum went half insane and they covered that in the local rag a few years back. She obviously wanted justice and as most of us didn't think 6 years was quite long enough.

All of them were chavvy scrotes and I doubt will ever provide anything worthwhile to society even if they don't go on to commit some other horrific crime.

victor3 · Post by **victor3** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:27 pm

Hang 'em!! Easy as that!!

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:32 pm

heres the details...

Sad that I knew her at primary school till the age of about 9, she also only lived a few streets away from me.

be warned, though it doesn't give all the detail, it's gruesome

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/355177.stm

My mistake .. some of them got as long as 17 years...I can't find record of 3 of the offenders.

Still not long enough imho

C2K · Post by **C2K** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:59 pm

Raistlin wrote:
C2K wrote:They ought to take these people in their blood stained clothes, smear raw meat on them and stick them in the middle of the Tiger or Lion pen at a Safari Park, and release the animals.
Quite indigestible I'm sure

Be funny to watch, and they'd bring new definition to blood sport.

Post by **Punx0r** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:28 pm

AFAIK all three have been convicted of murder and are awaiting sentencing, so the result should be available soon.

Shen, that story is absolutely sickening. I'm really not sure that I could cope if I were that poor girl's mother.

I don't see how anyone can justify these monsterous people ever seeing the outside of a cell again.

Semproxion · Post by **Semproxion** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:38 pm

Raistlin wrote:
Reef wrote:With all due respect to Raistlin (this isn't aimed at your good self)

They'll probably get one of these namby-pamby slap-on-the-wrist-and-don't-do-it-again judges.
Judges are bound by the same sentencing guidelines we are.

I think that for the most part, it is not the attitude of the Judiciary which is at fault here.

Rather, the labyrinthine procedures put in place by the legislators.

I've said on previous occasions and I make no apology for saying it again:

The solution is in your own hands. If you don't like it, ( I, for one, certainly don't) lobby your MP and tell them about it. Get the law changed.

It can be done and indeed has been done. In fact, I'll make a prediction and say that the laws relating to speed cameras will change in the near future, owing to the pressure of public opinion.

Unfortunately, the bulk of the UK population has too much inertia and not enough understanding to do anything about it. There are some who don't even know who their local MP is, never mind the procedures to effectively lobby.

This is not a criticism but rather an explanation as to why the same arguments happen time and time again.

My local MP is FULLY aware of my opinions on the Sentencing Guidelines Council and knows that I never waste an opportunity to raise it with him. It needs a lot more people to do so though. THe legislators are not going to change anything upon the suggestion of one person, even if that person is me

Reef wrote:I'm also a firm believer that the age of criminal responsibility should be lowered at least to 12 years old.
It's already ten.

Some fair points there.

As for the responsibility bit - I always thought it was higher

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:45 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5369274.stm

no no it is actually 10 years old

for all the good it does

Think what people want is for the age at which people are treated same as adult offenders should be lowered to 16 or less.

criminal responsibility may be 10 years old but they get soooo much social worker help and benefits thrown at them it's sickening.

victor3 · Post by **victor3** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:58 pm

The age of responsibility is roughly defined as the age that a child is sufficiently mature to be aware of the basic difference between right and wrong and acts accordingly. I remember that this was the case well over 10 years ago, at least.

However, with the recent 'new technologiocal dawn' allowing games showing theft and slaughter, perhaps there should be an 'age of awareness' where the child is aware that what goes on in cyber-kill land and the real world is different.

How do these kids of age 13 and 14 know how to drive cars? Simple!! 'Grand theft Auto', or similar!!

I wonder how many of these games actually show the consequences of being caught, sentenced, jailed and abused in prison by an adult perv.

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:06 pm

victor3 wrote: I wonder how many of these games actually show the consequences of being caught, sentenced, jailed and abused in prison by an adult perv.

get in touch with rockstar games...you could have a winning idea there!!!

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:00 pm

shen wrote:no no it is actually 10 years old

Phew - that's a relief. I'm pleased to have it confirmed that I've been doing it right all these years

I'll get me coat

Post by **Punx0r** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:20 pm

I'm not convinced it's the fault of games like GTA - look at the joy-ridding boom of the 80's

Semproxion · Post by **Semproxion** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:35 pm

Punx0r wrote:I'm not convinced it's the fault of games like GTA - look at the joy-ridding boom of the 80's

People blame video-games because it's easy and convenient too. It's easier than finding out the real cause and dealing with it, usually a lack of discipline by the offender's parents/guardians etc

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:35 pm

it's like that super sick joke...

what's the main cause of paedophilia?

sexy children

main cause of car theft is fast and sexy cars for sure....having a go in something you know you'll probably never own or not for a long long time..or perhaps even the feeling that you do own it.

but murder and acts like those detailed in this thread, as paedophilia has no reasoning it's just something wrong in peoples heads..something really wrong. See I think of leeds as being a weird place..not only are there sickos like those in that news article I posted but only last year a bloke in leeds raped and murdered his 2 year old neice.

What's to gain exactly by doing such things?

Not like when you nicked a car you could prolly brag to your mates about it (in the days before burning them out).

I don't advocate car theft but it's slighltly more understandable

Post by **MarkCoupe** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:57 pm

shen wrote:be warned, though it doesn't give all the detail, it's gruesome

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/355177.stm

I cant believe that randomly 6 people in the same neighbourhood were all psychotic, id love to look into the psycologoy of those freaks and how the whole thing happened. Did you know any of the convicts?

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:34 pm

It would be an eye-opening experience for you guys to observe a Youth Court.

Specifically, the "appropriate adults" who turn up, or rather DON'T turn up.

One often wonders whether it is the child or the parent who should be charged.

stefaclese · Post by **stefaclese** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:44 pm

Parenting is defo one of the biggest causes of such acts and general "youth crimes", ie chavs that think they can do wtf they like. This combined with the nanny state we live in has bred such vile creations.

Parents that let their kids run wild + nanny state that cares more about burglars rights than catching burglars = the state of the country we live in today.

For example, when I first started secondary school in 1999 you would respect the authority of year 11 prefects and teachers etc, when I was in 6th Form at the same school year 7's didn't give a flying fook how much older and whether someone was a prefect or a teacher, so in the space of 5 years (well less really) the whole mentallity and discipline of a lot of kids had totally changed. And what exactly are schools able to do? Nothing. All they can do is suspend or expel troublesome pupils but I'd imagine even that would be difficult to achieve, I think during the 5 years that I was at that school you could probably count the number of students expelled on one hand, maybe two.

shen · Post by **shen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:22 pm

MarkCoupe wrote:
shen wrote:be warned, though it doesn't give all the detail, it's gruesome

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/355177.stm

I cant believe that randomly 6 people in the same neighbourhood were all psychotic, id love to look into the psycologoy of those freaks and how the whole thing happened. Did you know any of the convicts?

Thankfully no mate.
Though I think many people wished that they had at around that time or just before...I never knew that poor girl had mental health probs till after that as she wasn't a raving loony as the term schizo would give the impression of.
It is as i'm sure anyone would agree tragic and sickening, just gives indication of the society we live in.

That story also doesn't mention that Angela had a boyfriend who informed the police of her having gone missing and spent days searching for her before the body turned up.

Craziest of all is that it took place literally a minute from one of the biggest hospitals in the UK and they didn't think to just stop after seeing her injuries and leave her there instead.

This all goes back to a thread from a few months back regarding self defence.....be prepared to let loose sometimes and not hold back when confronted in a fight situation because to be fair, how'd you know you're not up against this type of low life psycho.

Post by **Punx0r** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:49 pm

Indeed. By the sounds of it, I don't think Brent Martin tried to fight off his attackers, possibly due to his mental state. That adds yet another level of depravity to these crimes IMO.

Paul, are the youth courts closed to the public? Or is that just the family courts?

Raistlin · Post by **Raistlin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:06 pm

Punx0r wrote:Paul, are the youth courts closed to the public? Or is that just the family courts?

They are. In fact they are even closed to other (non youth Court) Magistrates

BlueRover · Post by **BlueRover** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:13 pm

Raistlin wrote:It would be an eye-opening experience for you guys to observe a Youth Court.

Perhaps an RT day out ? Hire a few coaches and get special dispensation to jeer and laugh at the monsters as they are convicted.

Post by **Punx0r** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:03 am

Apart from that we're all banned! It's a shame they're not open to public scrutiny.

I can't see why a 17 year old can commit a terrible murder, but have their identity protected. It's not as they they need wrapping in cotton wool to protect them from the big-bad world.

I imagine that the victims or relatives would also like to see the justice process to help them with their grief?